Thursday February 07, 2002
Wise words Scott, Thank you. You are absolutely correct. And to be honest with you Scott, the early season really doesn't matter to me either. It is the way it is being done and the reason it is being done. I am not that much of a jerk to be bickering over seven days. I see the main man who is to be looking out for the little guys as much as he does the big guys. I see the little guy being pushed aside for the big guy who already has it pretty good. So yes, I will take your advise and wipe the foam from my mouth and play the jedi. You can be Yoda.
I also heard from a very reliable source that the govenor is not going to attend the meeting. I guess I can't blame him. If you had the choice of going to a meeting that you knew you were going to get your butt handed to you on a platter or staying home, I think I would stay home. I guess some folks from the game and fish are going to be there to answer questions. I really wanted to ask the Govenor how much he made at that so called "fundraiser"
One more thing Scott, I remember you saying that you were concerned about us not voting for Hoven and getting an anti-hunting peta loving govenor. Well my philosophy is to chose the lesser of the two evils.
Sorry, one last thing. I feel the need to explain my passion about this. I spent three and a half years stationed with the "Tropical Lightning" Light infantry. That is a highly deployable unit and I spent much time traveling to countries that were literaly crap holes. I have seen first hand, unfair Government and practices that would make a billy goat puke (got that one from rambo). There is no greater place to live than the USA and no better place to live in the USA than ND. So when I see politicians lying and fulfilling hidden agendas it make my blood boil. I did not waste three and a half years of sucking dirt and exposing myself to all kinds of garbage to see my home state being sold out to further line the pockets of the already well to do. I believe in my heart that if Hoven pushes this through he is no worse than a dictator who is going to do whatever he pleases reguardles of what the masses are saying. He is not my leader. I am his boss, as is everyone else. True, we are not a pure democracy but if the masses speak, he should follow. At least that is how I feel about it. Thanks Scott you are wise beyond your years. And I truely love this site!!! Thanks for being a gracious webmaster. All hale Yoda!
Thursday February 07, 2002
I can sympathize with your passion. I hear you and believe you to be upset. The thing I love most about a forum like this is: Everyone can get the stuff out in the open....and rant....and be ticked off. I know that I, myself, have done that here on this forum.
Dogman, this seems to be an important issue to you. (Truth be told, it doesn't matter to me. I don't hunt, as I've expressed several times on this forum.)
If this important to you, then express your opinion. I can only make one suggestion, and it's one I learned from a wise man several years ago. It's been very effective for me, and it cannot hurt your cause.
Whenever I'm in a confrontational evironment, where the NATURAL reaction is to raise your voice: LOWER IT. It shows control and strength. It is also disarming to those who expect you to raise it.
I'm sure there is going to be shouting, and yelling at this meeting. If the Governor does any of this (shouting and yelling), you would begin to lose any respect you had left for him.
He won't yell, he won't scream. He'll be dignified. There is a reason for this. It works. It shows leadership and control in an adversarial environment. As soon as you realize your voice is rising in volume, lower it, and your thoughts actually become CLEARER.
One more thing to all here:
My opinion means SQUAT on hunting. Same with fishing. It's my opinion, that's all.
I repeat what I have said before: If you disagree with me, SAY SO! I learn by debate, and have been known to turn 180 degrees from my opinion by a well-phrased answer. Right now, 'dogman' has me turned about 15 degrees.
Thursday February 07, 2002
Just saw the news this evening and thought I would share what I heard. Gov. Hoven had a meeting today with outfitters and sportsman to allow them to voice there concerns. Apparently the sportsman felt this was nothing more than "lip service". Which means the gov showed no concern and did this meeting so he could say we had a meeting. Apparently there are letters from the game and fish from two years ago apposing this change. It is obvious that our Gov. has been less than truethful about the whole thing. If the sw part of the state is hurting for dollars an earlier season wont do squat for them. Many residents will not hunt there because it is all closed up to us middle class folks.
Open it up or at least bring the fee down to where residents can afford to hunt down there. By the way Hoven closed the meeting to the press. Is he hiding the fact that very few people support this. The only people I know of that support this are the non residents and the landowners in the sw part of the state. Of course cannonball supports this. And I am sure Cannonball has given Hoven a sizeable campaign contribution hidden under the term "Fundraiser"
I pray to God that I can keep my cool in the meeting. If he goes off on the economic developement train i am going to blast his rational out of the water. The only people being helped by this is cannonball and outfitters. The rest of us will take it in the shorts. Right now I am fuming. Call me rabbid if you like. If you guys see a bald heeaded guy foaming at the mouth you will know it's me. They dont call me dogman for nothing!
Thursday February 07, 2002
O.K. Heff, you're excused. I can understand how you still have ties to ND, but when you moved to EGF, you gained the right to vote in Mn and lost the right to vote in ND. AND believe it or not, the strong lobbying done by non-res special interest groups (using $$$$, misinformation, and other political swill) on topics such as limits, access, pay hunt, quotas, C and R, slot limits, blah and blah, is at least as effective as my resident vote at a public gathering. Just seems to me that smart politicians (yeah yeah, an oxymoron) would never put contentious hunting issues up to public referendum, remember the fun with the seatbelt referendums? This would possibly help set a record for voter turnout in this state.
Please don't pull that "freedom of speech" argument on me, four of my almost 36 yrs on this planet were spent in the Marine Corps helping to protect your freedom of speech rights, so don't stop because of me. I am just exercising my freedom of speech to say I wish people would make better decisions on when to exercise their right to freedom of speech.
I must admit that I become more of a republican on social issues with each passing year, but I am still no fan of the change in pheasant season, or their pandering to big business enterprises that are selling a public good (wild birds are a public good). Flowers (including dandelions) in a state park are also a public good and don't let my former boss catch your kid picking a flower to give to mommy. A maniacal defense of the public property would kick in and you would be tracked down to atone for the thievery. So I am still left in confusion as to why a kid picking a state owned dandelion is considered a thief, but charging $$$$ to shoot a state owned bird is considered good business.
Skumbag, errr scumbag? Well I'll let you call yourself as you see fit, heheheh, but I have heard a JC Heff who had strong opinions on ND C&R and slot limit discussions (different venue less frequented by me with the advent of Scott's site). Don't worry Heff, there are a lot worse out there than you. Not surprisingly, many of them are also former North Dakotans who moved east or south. Hoeven may truly believe that North Dakota should be an economy based on tourism. Well in that sense, he's an idiot. And he's insulting his citizens by saying we're too stupid to have an economy based upon anything but farming and the all mighty tourist dollar. North Dakota does not need to export our wildlife to enhance our economy, it needs to find ways to use value added industry to augment our export of raw agricultural and energy. There is no state in this country (that I am aware) which has an enviably strong economy based upon hunter tourism. I think most economists would agree that tourism based areas take an awful beating in bad economic times. enuff from me.
Wednesday February 06, 2002
Coldy, You can bet your pineapples that I will speak loudly. Remmember, the meeting is in jamestown at the Gladstone Inn 10am-noon on Feb. 9. That is this saturday. We need to all be there to express our concerns.
I got a little more info for you guys. Apparently the Cannonball company pushed for the early opener stating that the pheasant population needs to be controlled better. I guess they have to many pheasants down there. An earlier season would give hunters more time to help bring the numbers down to a more manageable winter population. Cannonball is worried that if too many roosters remain and a hard winter hits the hens will take it in the shorts. That's logical.
My thoughts on that is that if everything down there wasn't all leased up more residents could hunt there. Right now only the rich can afford to hunt in that area and that is what the cannonball company wants. More rich non residents to come in and hunt. A longer season would give them more time to book hunts. I use the term "apparently" because my source on this is somewhat emotional and ultra passionate on this topic. Much more than I. Anyway it is a logical rational. I don't know if it is true or not but it does make sense to me.
Anyway, I will see you all at the meeting. Bring your throat spray to keep those vocal cords well lubed.
Wednesday February 06, 2002
Allen, Thank you for giving me a back door way out of this conversation. You are right I should shut my mouth being a minnesotan and all. I was born in ND and spent most of my life hunting ND. I now fish almost exclusively ND, except for the occasional Canadian trips. When I go to MN lakes I go to relax, not fish. I have no problems with ND regulations, I have no problem paying non resident liscense fee. As a matter of fact I would pay twice the amount if I had to for the privelage to hunt in your state. If you knew anything about me you would know that I would be the first person to admit that I aint about to start learning no one on nothin. <<HA HA? Sorry I forgot that humor is not allowed in this site. Any way I am now officially shutting up on this issue that I, a non-resident skumbag, have no rite to voice my opinion in these here United States of America... Oh sorry there's that sorry attempt at humor again. I do hope the discussion continues, as a reader only of course. I would like to lear more because believe it or not I do still consider ND home and I sincerely only want whats best for ND.
Wednesday February 06, 2002
Call me reactionary, exclusionary, a jerk, a non-res hating S.O.B., whatever you want. The plain and simple thing about Heff's post and other non-resident outbursts that tend to get under my skin is that all too often they seem to "know" what is best for ND.
I'll paraphrase your Governor for you Heff, several months ago on lunch with the Gov, he fielded a question about "Why shouldn't Minnesota taxpayers pay to build a new stadium for the Vikings? We love the Vikes and don't want to see them moved." Jesse promptly inquired as to where the young man called home (guess he wanted to get a feel for his constituency). Turns out he was a North Dakotan. Jesse very quickly told the guy in no uncertain terms that the issue of whether, or not, Mn taxpayers are to pay the price of a new stadium was strictly for Minnesota residents and that he, as a North Dakotan, had no standing in the debate. I agree with Jesse. As a ND resident, I have no say in the debate and generally keep my mouth shut on the topic. Similarly, I feel that the price of expanded use by non-residents of ND wildlife will include a price to be paid in access, quality, and quantity of wildlife. This price will be paid by North Dakota residents.
Let's face it, ND has a relatively small population and great hunting and fishing. If we let a non-resident have an equal vote with resident on these types of issues, in the not too distant future, the non-resident votes may outweigh the resident votes. This is fundamentally wrong. The concept of external rule over a region, people, or resource, has been the cause of many wars and a lot of hard feelings. Yes, some would even say even our own blessed Civil War.
Would you Mr. Heff (or any of the rest of the non-residents) care for your non-residents to have an equal or greater vote than you have in your home areas? Probably not, and if you don't believe me, talk to your own Mn locals about non-res (or Twin Cities) owners of lake cabins. Perhaps, you like hunting and fishing in ND. That's great, you are more than welcome to hunt and fish here under our rules. I don't much care for Mn fishing regs, or the crowds, so I choose not to fish there on a regular basis. Must admit I had fun fishing for crappies twice last year on a private lake in northern Mn, but that's all I tried. And if you don't like our rules? Tough, stay home and fish your Upper Red Lake, non-resident hunters and fishers are a dime a dozen. I'm sure someone else will gladly take your spot on one of our lakes.
By the way, is it just me? Or does it seem like most non-residents who feel the need to "educate" us North Dakotans tend to come from one state?
Tuesday February 05, 2002
Yo Heff, I don't understand. Prior to your last post you say and I quote, "how did Hoven ram the early pheasant opener down our throats" now you are calling us a bunch of cry babies. Then you state in your last post all these quotations that Dean and our illustrious leader made like you were a part of the conversation. Is that what was actually said or are you paraphrasing. I am upset over the fact at how it was done. Many guides did not support this. No resident that I have talk to support this. Many Republican Reps do not support this. If Dean supports this it is only because his BOSS does. The only thing Hoven did is create more revenue for the outfitters. In turn they will tie up more land. You tell me how will this help the average Joe hunter. We get to hunt pheasant a week earlier. BIG DEAL. This was done soley for the non-resident waterfowler. Now they can hunt waterfowl and pheasant together which by the way the cannonball company wants. Now they can offer combo hunts. Anyway there is a meeting in jamestown at the Gladstone 10am-noon feb 9. You can bet I will be there. I think you should go to Heff. Maybe if you lived here you might feel different. Maybe if all your hunting spots were being leased up you might feel different. Either way it is easy for a non-resident to sit and critisize us residents for wanting to protect our way of life. Maybe Hoven will change my mind at the meeting. All I do know is that many are miss informed maybe even me. I hope to have some answers. I still say we should allow only residents to hunt the first week. South Dakota does it that way. And by the way, I am now a land owner. My land is by Leroy, ND and guess what, IT IS NOT POSTED AND WON'T BE. So don't be calling me a cry baby. You might have hunted that land before. Oh! don't mention it, your welcome!
Friday, Feb 1st, 2002
Let’s change the subject of the story and see if it still makes everyone mad:
<<Once upon a time there was this really rich guy who organized a group
of ranchers and farmes and paid them good money if he could controll the
access to there land for drilling puposes. This was
such a good deal that many farmers and ranchers flocked to this guy and
signed over there drilling rights to the land for
big green backs. Over time many high rollers from far away would come and
pay this man to drill on this land. Now this man and
his company has made alot of money and other people say "hey, I can do
this too" Well, to make a long story short many others start operations of
their own and run it like the first guy did.
Now, this one guy who started it all is saying how can I increase my earnings and he comes up with an idea. This guy invites Gov. Hoven and a few of his political strong arms to come down and drill for free. They called it a fund raiser. Next thing we here is that Hoven has increased the drilling season by opening it a week earlier. NO meetings, NO fact finding groups, NO advisory input. Now you tell me, How in God's name can a banker make a decision about oil drilling and not even consult the people who were appointed to make those decisions. CAN YOU SAY SELLOUT!>>
Scott adds: Now first of all, we don’t have a ‘drilling season’, and second of all oil is a NON-RENEWABLE resource, so my comparison is not perfect…but lets go with it, for it fits the purpose of debate.
Governor Hoeven has not restricted anyone’s rights, he has given us less restriction. If he decided that the resource was plentiful enough to open year-round (fishing??) would we still complain?
I sense a sort of inflammatory rhetoric toward this subject, but it goes to the heart of what we should/need to expect from Government itself. I doubt the Governor made his decision blind. In fact, going on that trip, and conversing with the owners was probably BETTER than his advisors could offer.
These outfitters are in it for their livelihood. If THEY thought it was a bad idea, and that the resource would be depleted, then they, themselves, would have been the cheerleaders saying, "Don’t do it!"
We are not a pure Democracy, we are a Republic. That means not every issue comes up for a public vote; rather we ELECT people to represent our views.
I am concerned an, "I won’t vote for Hoeven" will produce a vote for someone who would rather ban hunting PERIOD.
I not joking about this: If you make this one issue a reason to not vote him, you run the risk of another "anti-hunter" voting for a hunting ban! (Make no mistake….the Governor wants MORE hunting….not less)
If you feel as though the Governor has acted upon a ‘special interest group’s input’, and not yours, then it’s time to form a special interest group.
Believe it or not, this very forum, is a ‘special interest group’. My intention is to e-mail my post to the Governor’s office, complete with a link to this webpage.
The Governor has taken nothing away from our freedom, he has only given us more. I say that’s a good thing, regardless how it unfolded.
(Dogman, I hope you do not stop posting opposing views....I like it!)
Friday February 01, 2002
JCHEFF, I hear ya and yes it should be Dean's call but you know when your boss tells you this is how he wants it what are you going to do. One word from Hoven and Dean is gone. I would like to tell you guys a little story. Once upon a time there was this really rich guy who organized a group of ranchers and farmes and paid them good money if he could controll the access to there land for hunting puposes. This was such a good deal that many farmers and ranchers flocked to this guy and signed over there hunting rights to the land for big green backs. Over time many high rollers from far away would come and pay this man to hunt on this land. Now this man and his company has made alot of money and other people say "hey, I can do this too" Well, to make a long story short many others start operations of their own and run it like the first guy did.
Now, this one guy who started it all is saying how can I increase my earnings and he comes up with an idea. This guy invites Gov. Hoven and a few of his political strong arms to come down and hunt for free. They called it a fund raiser. Next thing we here is that Hoven has increased the pheasant season by opening it a week earlier. NO meetings, NO fact finding groups, NO advisory input. Now you tell me, How in God's name can a banker make a decision about wildlife and not even consult the people who were appointed to make those decisions. CAN YOU SAY SELLOUT!
I hope you enjoyed my bed time story. It just happens to be true!! Our Govenor has sold out to a special interest group. He has ignored the people who are educated and paid to make those decisions. I for one will not vote for Hoven in 2004. Input welcomed and quite honestly, needed.